During a November 13, 2018 show that aired on Sada Al-Balad TV (Egypt) discussing population growth in Egypt, TV host Ahmed Moussa claimed that Egypt's "terrible and unparalleled" population growth is leading the country to catastrophe. Sheikh Saeed Numan, who is a cleric at Al-Azhar University and a former member of the Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, read a quote from what he claimed is the "oldest version of the Torah in the world." The quote, which is from the Book of Ezekiel, mentions diminishing Egypt and making it desolate, and Numan said that it reveals a Jewish scheme to decrease Egypt's birthrate. Numan said that his responsibility as a religious scholar is to prevent destructive Jewish principles such as Darwinian evolution, Freudian concepts about sex, and Marxist ideas about religion from infiltrating Egyptian society. He also said that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which he claimed were created by Theodor Herzl, have destroyed the world and that they are among these principles.
Roughly two weeks later, on December 5, Egyptian journalist and political sociologist Dr. Hoda Zakariya appeared in a show on Ten TV (Egypt) in which she criticized Numan's claims, saying instead that the Jewish scheme is in fact to increase Egypt's population. TV host Nashat Al-Dahi agreed with her. Sheikh Saeed Numan has previously said that unborn fetuses can be married off by their guardians (see MEMRI TV clip no. 6890 Al-Azhar Cleric Saeed Numan: Male And Female Fetuses Can Be Married Off To Each Other By Their Guardians, November 14, 2018) and Dr. Hoda Zakariya has previously said that the Holocaust is a rumor (see MEMRI TV clip no. Egyptian Journalist Dr. Hoda Zakariya: The Scope Of The Holocaust Is Just A Rumor, February 7, 2018).
On November 13:
Ahmed Moussa: "For the past fifty or sixty years, the state has been working on the issue of [population growth], but it hasn't managed to do anything about it.
"Population! If we continue at this rate, we will reach a population of 128 million by 2030. In about 40-45 years, we will reach a population of 200 million. We are heading towards a catastrophe. If you want to know why the price of vegetables is rising, and why there are endless traffic jams, it's because of that. It's also the reason why there are 40, 80, and even 100 students in one class. And the same is true for the universities. Is there any other country in the world with an auditorium for 5,000 students? That is why. This is our real problem. If we want to be serious and point out Egypt's real problem – it is our terrible and unparalleled population growth.
"When you bring 10 children to the world, do you have enough income to support them? I'll ask again: Do you have enough income to support these 10 children? Do you have the income to support eight children? Do you have enough for food, education, health, and a respectable life for them, or are you planning to have them and then throw them out in the street?"
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "I have the oldest version of the Torah in the world. This version contains the Book of Ezekiel. What does the Book of Ezekiel say in chapter 29, verses 9 to 16? 'And I will make the land of Egypt a ruin and a desolate waste from Migdol to Aswan.' This is mentioned in the false Torah. '...from Migdol to Aswan, as far as the border of Cush.' Then it says, 'and I will diminish them...' Underline 'diminish' seven times. 'I will diminish them, that they shall no more rule over the nations.' This means that if the Egyptian nation increases in number, it will rule the world. It is a well-known fact all over the world. This is the first principle of a Jewish discourse that infiltrates..."
Ahmed Moussa: "What do you mean by 'Jewish discourse'?"
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "It was explained by one of the brothers in the Gestapo or the Russian Intelligence. I heard his interview with Al-Kahera Wal-Nas TV. He explained how to destroy a country and so on and so forth. You must know that. I'm sure of it. So this is a Jewish discourse on how to decrease the birthrate of the Egyptian people.
"Let's say that I have two children – a boy and a girl..."
Ahmed Moussa: "Or whatever..."
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "Yes, two children. There are wars and there will always be wars."
Ahmed Moussa: "Yes."
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "The army needs a supply of people. According to Islam, women are never obligated to wage Jihad."
Ahmed Moussa: "I didn't say they are. Nobody is saying that."
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "Only the men are going to wage Jihad..."
Ahmed Moussa: "I didn't say that we don't want there to be any births. We just want family planning."
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "Instead of a law that limits me to only two children, we need a law that will force people to work in the desert. It should be obligatory and whoever refuses to work should be punished.
"The childhood of a chick lasts for two hours. Two hours after hatching from its egg it can already peck and eat. However, the childhood of the human lasts for 21 years. The army only recruits them at the age of 19. If I send my son to the army and he dies, how can I compensate myself? Am I supposed to wait another 20 years until a new child grows into a man? No, sir. This idea of two children is no good. Let's talk about four."
Ahmed Moussa: "How many children do you have?"
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "No... I mean... No, they aren't... They are special cases..."
Ahmed Moussa: "May Allah protect them for you."
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "My neighbor has eight children, but I only have seven sons. Another neighbor of mine has several daughters. I saw how gentle they were, so I had four daughters as well. Eleven altogether."
Ahmed Mousa: "So you have 11 children."
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "Yes."
Ahmed Moussa: "May Allah protect them."
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "My eldest son is in the U.S. and so are my grandchildren."
Panel Member: "It is great that they are in America..."
Ahmed Moussa: "All your children are well-educated?"
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "Yes. Very good, very much."
Panel Member: "All of them are educated."
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "Yes, they are all 100%."
Ahmed Moussa: "Are all of them married or not yet?"
Sheikh Saeed Numan: "Some of them are married and some are still waiting for a nice groom like yourself. The brides are ready...
"Darwin's theory of evolution says that humans were originally apes. At the same time, Darwin talked about God's Chosen People. We also have Sigmund Freud who said that human beings are controlled by sex. We have Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx who said that religion is the opium of the people. We have Theodor Herzl, who created the Protocols of the Elders of Zion that destroyed the world. As a religious scholar, I am responsible for preventing destructive Jewish principles from infiltrating my society."
On December 5
Dr. Hoda Zakariya: "Two weeks ago, sheikh [Saeed Numan] appeared on one of the TV channels as part of [a panel] that was discussing our problem of population growth. He said: 'Are you being paid by America? Are you implementing a Jewish scheme [to limit Egypt's population]?'"
TV Host Nashat Al-Dihi: "Sorry to interrupt you, but the Jewish and American scheme is our current situation."
Dr. Hoda Zakariya: "The population growth itself [is the scheme]."
Nashat Al-Dihi: "And then someone comes up with a fatwa banning [population control]. They want our population to grow to 200 million, so that we will become beggars."