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May 2, 2011 Special Dispatch No. 3801

Pakistani Journalists Recall Meetings with Osama bin Laden: 'Osama Wanted to Be a Martyr'; '[He Said That] the War Against Americans Will Not Be Over Even After My Death'

May 2, 2011
Pakistan | Special Dispatch No. 3801

In a report titled 'Osama Wanted To Be a Martyr," senior Pakistani journalist Rahimullah Yusufzai, who has covered the Afghanistan-Pakistan region over the past several decades, recalled his 1998 interview with Osama bin Laden, noting that the Al-Qaeda leader was motivated by martyrdom.

"Weakened by sustained military operations carried [out] by Pakistan's security forces, U.S. drone strikes and the death and arrest of many of its operatives, Al-Qaeda will now glorify bin Laden as a martyr and try to remain in business," Yusufzai added.

In a report titled 'The Osama Bin Laden I Knew," senior Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir recalled his three meetings with the Al-Qaeda leader and several occasions bin Laden escaped from the American and British troops in Afghanistan. He also observed: "Osama bin Laden is dead, but Al-Qaeda and its allies are not. Osama always exploited the flaws in American policies. His real strength was hatred for America – Islam was never his real strength. Physical elimination of Osama bin Laden is big news for the Americans but many outside America want the elimination of the policies that produce bin Ladens. America came into Afghanistan in search of Osama bin Laden."

Following are excerpts from Rahimullah Yusufzai's article[1] and from Hamid Mir's article:[2]

Rahimullah Yusufzai: "Bin Laden Embraced This Death Wish When He Declared Jihad Against the U.S. and Israel – Or The Crusaders and Jews, As He Called Them"

"In an interview with this writer in Afghanistan in December 1998, Osama bin Laden expressed his wish to embrace martyrdom. He also said that he would resist capture and die fighting for his cause.

"True to his words, bin Laden fought until the end and didn't allow himself to be captured although he was outnumbered by U.S. Special Forces at his Abbottabad hideout.

"Weakened by sustained military operations carried [out] by Pakistan's security forces, U.S. drone strikes and the death and arrest of many of its operatives, Al-Qaeda will now glorify bin Laden as a martyr and try to remain in business.

"The Al-Qaeda founder didn't die alone. One of his wives and a son also died with him. Prior to his death, the wives and children of his close lieutenant and Al-Qaeda deputy leader Dr. Ayman Al-Zawahiri were killed in Afghanistan. Zawahiri is now in line to take over as the new Al-Qaeda leader.

"Earlier, then Al-Qaeda deputy head, Sheikh Taseer Abdullah, also known as Abu Hafs and referred to as Muhammad Atef by the Americans, had died fighting in Afghanistan.

"Dying comes easily to such people, as they believe it is martyrdom when one dies fighting in the way of Allah. That has been their belief and this is what has kept them going against heavy odds.

"The Al-Qaeda members, led by bin Laden, embraced this death wish when he declared jihad against the U.S. and Israel – or the Crusaders and Jews, as he called them, in the 1996. It was a matter of time before this wish would be fulfilled one after another. Those still alive are likely to take the same path and continue fighting until they too are dead."

Hamid Mir: Bin Laden Said, "[The U.S.] Can Claim Victory Only If They Get Me Alive – But If They Just Capture My Dead Body, It Will Be a Defeat"

"'I am the son of a wealthy father, I could have spent my life in luxury in Europe and America, like many other wealthy Saudis.

"'Instead, I took up arms and headed for the mountains of Afghanistan. Was it personal interest that drove me to spend each moment of my life in the shadow of death? No! I was merely discharging a religious obligation by waging jihad against those who attacked Muslims.

"'It does not matter if I die in the course of fulfilling this responsibility; my death and the death of others like me will one day awaken millions of Muslims from apathy.'

"These were the words of Osama bin Laden, which he spoke to me one morning during March 1997, in the cave in the Tora Bora mountains of eastern Afghanistan. I was the first Pakistani journalist to interview Osama bin Laden.

"In May 1998, I encountered him for the second time in a hideout near the Kandahar Airport for many hours. He mentioned his possible death again and again to me in that long conversation and said: 'Yes, I know that my enemy is very powerful but let me assure you, they can kill me but they cannot arrest me alive.'

"I received his messenger within a few hours after the 9/11 attacks and he praised all those who conducted these attacks but he never accepted the responsibility of the 9/11 attacks. It confused me.

"I tried to meet him again. I took the risk of entering Afghanistan in November 2001 when American warplanes were targeting Al-Qaeda and Taliban from Jalalabad to Kabul.

"I was lucky to meet him for the third time on the morning of November 8, 2001. I was the first and the last journalist to interview him after 9/11. Intense bombing was going on inside and outside the city of Kabul. He welcomed me with a smile on his face and said: 'I told you last time that the enemy can kill me but they cannot capture me alive, I am still alive.'

"After the interview, he again said: 'Mark my words, Hamid Mir, they can kill me anytime but they cannot capture me alive; they can claim victory only if they get me alive but if they just capture my dead body, it will be a defeat, the war against Americans will not be over even after my death, I will fight till the last bullet in my gun, martyrdom is my biggest dream and my martyrdom will create more Osama bin Ladens."'

At a 2003 Meeting, bin Laden Urged His Followers: "Get Americans in Iraq Before They Get Us in Afghanistan"

"Osama fulfilled his promise. He never surrendered… His death is the biggest news of 2011 for Americans, but his sympathizers are satisfied that Osama bin Laden was not captured alive – otherwise the Americans would have humiliated him like Saddam Hussein.

"For me, it was a great surprise that the world's most wanted man was hiding in a Pakistani city, Abbotabad, home to Pakistan Military Academy (PMA). This is the same area where Pakistani intelligence agency ISI [Inter-Services Intelligence] conducted a search operation to arrest Abu Faraj al-Libbi in 2004, but the son-in-law of Osama escaped to Mardan [district] where he was captured by ISI after few weeks.

"It was learned that the Americans conducted the operation without informing their Pakistani counterparts. Two American Chinook helicopters entered the Pakistani airspace from eastern Afghanistan. The government sources say: 'We were unaware because the Americans jammed our radar system…'

"According to my knowledge, he escaped death at least four times after 9/11.At times, he dodged the world's most sophisticated satellite systems and dangerous missiles by his own cleverness, and at others, it was his sheer luck that saved him from enemy strikes with only minutes to spare.

"The U.S. air strikes started against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda on October 7, 2001 and Osama bin Laden was spotted along with Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri on November 8, 2001 in Kabul. They had come to Kabul from Jalalabad to attend an Al-Qaeda meeting, and also to pay tribute to their Uzbek comrade, Jummah Khan Namangani, who lost his life in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif, Afghanistan, on November 6.

"It was the same day that I was granted an interview by the world's most wanted man in Kabul. I was not allowed to use my camera to take photographs of bin Laden. One of his sons, Abdul Rehman, took my picture with his father and with Dr. Ayman al-Zawahri. Abdul Rehman used his own camera and gave me the film. Despite all these security measures, a female spy was able to notice the unusual movement of many important Arabs in Kabul…"

"It was in April 2003 that the world's most wanted man was to surface again in Afghanistan, after the U.S. invasion of Iraq. He called a meeting in the Pech Valley of Kunar province and delivered a hard-hitting speech, in which he announced his plans to resist America in Iraq.

"He said: 'Get Americans in Iraq before they get us in Afghanistan.' He declared that Saiful Adil would be in-charge of organizing resistance in Iraq, and advised him to contact Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, who was hiding in Iran at the time. Bin Laden started addressing small gatherings of his comrades in Kunar as well as Paktia. One of his daughters-in-law died during childbirth in the Kunar mountains.

"There was a big gathering at the funeral of his daughter-in-law. Local Afghans came to know about the death and started visiting the homes of some Al-Qaeda fighters, who had married in Kunar. The news of these events reached the Americans. They launched an operation in Kunar, but once again Osama bin Laden escaped towards the south before the bombing started in Pech Valley."

"Osama Always Exploited the Flaws in American Policies; His Real Strength was Hatred for America – Islam Was Never His Real Strength"

"It was late in 2004 when bin Laden found himself surrounded by British troops in the southern Afghan province of Helmand. Bin Laden had been hiding in a mountain area with three defense lines. Highly placed diplomatic sources revealed to this writer recently in Kabul that the British forces were very close to taking Osama bin Laden, dead or alive. He was besieged for more than 24 hours, but he managed to dodge one of the world's best equipped armies. According to details gathered from some Taliban sources in Helmand, the British forces broke two defense lines of Al-Qaeda in an area of five kilometers.

"One-to-one fighting was about to start, but as the day ended the darkness of night provided some welcome relief to Al-Qaeda. Osama bin Laden wanted to fight on the frontline, but his colleagues stopped him. Heated arguments were exchanged.

"Bin Laden was angry, but Abu Hamza Al Jazeeri convinced him to escape. They placed many rockets with timers, aimed at two different directions, as a deception. They decided to break the enemy encirclement, heading in the third direction with a group of foot fighters. That group was providing cover to bin Laden. Most of the fighters lost their lives, but the plan succeeded. Osama bin Laden slipped from the British hands along with Abu Hamza Al Jazeeri and some other fighters…"

"He stopped moving inside Afghanistan and chose Pakistani tribal areas for an underground life. His big family was scattered after 9/11. Some of his children lived in Iran and one of his sons reportedly spent time in Karachi for a brief period, but nobody thought that Osama would be captured in Abbottabad. He was hiding in Abbottabad with one of his wives, a son and a daughter.

"When Americans attacked his hideout, he immediately started fighting. His wife got a bullet wound in her foot. According to his wounded wife, Osama rushed to the rooftop and joined his guards who were resisting the attack. His 10-year-old daughter Safia watched American commandos entering the house, who took away the dead body of her father. She confirmed later: 'The Americans dragged the dead body of my father through the stairs.'

"Osama bin Laden is dead, but Al-Qaeda and its allies are not. Osama always exploited the flaws in American policies. His real strength was hatred against America; Islam was never his real strength.

"The physical elimination of Osama bin Laden is big news for the Americans, but many outside America want elimination of the policies that produce bin Ladens.

"America came into Afghanistan in search of Osama bin Laden. No doubt that he was responsible for the killing of many innocent people, but Americans cannot justify the killing of innocent people through drone attacks just because Osama killed some innocent Americans.

"Both Osama bin Laden and Americans violated the sovereignty of Pakistan. It must be stopped now. Osama is dead. If America does not leave Afghanistan after the death of Osama bin Laden, then this war will not end soon…"

Endnotes:

[1] The News (Pakistan), May 3, 2011. The text of the reports in this dispatch have been lightly edited for clarity.

[2] The News (Pakistan), May 3, 2011.

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