The following MEMRI TV clip is a complimentary offering from MEMRI's Jihad and Terrorism Threat Monitor (JTTM). For JTTM subscription information, click here.
Following are excerpts from an interview with imprisoned Saudi Jihadi cleric Walid Al-Sinai, which aired on MBC TV via the Internet on November 17, 2013:
"Muhammad Is Indeed The Prophet Of Mercy, But He Is Also The Prophet Of Battle, Force, And The Sword"
Walid Al-Sinani: "With regard to Islamic proselytizing – many people focus on its leniency and ignore the use of force. We constantly hear in the media: Muhammad was the prophet of mercy. That's true, but complete the message. What is stated in the Koran and the Sunna is not limited to what you say. Muhammad is indeed the prophet of mercy, but he is also the prophet of battle, force, and the sword. The proof can be found in the Koran. All ash said that the Companions of the Prophet are 'severe against the infidels.'"
Interviewer: "Only against the infidels..."
Walid Al-Sinani: "Right."
Interviewer: "We are not infidels, yet you are severe towards us."
Walid Al-Sinani: "Don't say that..."
Interviewer: "I call it as I see it."
Walid Al-Sinani: "In all the countries that purport to be Islamic, not only in Saudi Arabia, enmity towards the infidels has been abandoned, whether they are Jews, Christians, or even Communists..."
Interviewer: "Even those who enjoy protection under Islam?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Look, takfir [accusing people of heresy] is one thing, and fighting them is another. The Prophet Muhammad and all the prophets before him were commanded with takfir and enmity towards the infidels at a time when they were not commanded to fight them." [...]
"Sheik Ibn Al-Uthaymeen, may Allah forgive him, was graced with extensive knowledge, but he was subverted from the right path by the state. Even when I and others presented him with evidence contrasting his rulings, he would keep silent. He couldn't do anything. He was weak." [...]
"Let me give you one example of many – and this is a mark of shame for the Arabian Peninsula, from its creation until Judgment Day... I am talking about the invasion of the Arabian Peninsula by foreign forces in 1991..."
Interviewer: "You mean the liberation of Kuwait..."
Walid Al-Sinani: "It was called 'the liberation of Kuwait,' but in fact, it was an invasion and defilement of the Arabian Peninsula."
Interviewer: "Did you accuse Ibn Al-Uthaymeen of heresy because of this?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "No. The invasion was planned a long time before." [...]
"Among The Loftiest Principles Of All The Books Of Allah And His Prophets Is The Principle Of Takfir, Enmity Towards The Infidels"
Interviewer: "You did not enroll your children in schools..."
Walid Al-Sinani: "No, I did not. I have severe reservations about the education system. From the day Allah opened my eyes, I realized how dangerous these schools are."
Interviewer: "How many children do you have?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Three boys and six girls. None of them went to school."
Interviewer: "You yourself went to school and even to university, so how can you deny them this?
Walid Al-Sinani: "All of them, including my 23-year-old-son, who has been in prison since he was 16, pray for Allah to reward me for sparing them these schools. I am not saying that these schools are all bad. They combine the good with the bad. Allah told us in the Koran that many of the people of heresy and falsehood mix truth with falsehood. This is the most dangerous thing. If you encounter pure truth, you have no problem identifying it, and if you encounter pure falsehood, you have no problem either. The danger lies in mixing truth with falsehood." [...]
"The school curricula focus on secular issues, like civics. The Principles of national identity..."
Interviewer: "There is no focus on civics in our education system. Not true. None of the religious curricula mention this, and the same goes for Arabic and mathematics. There is only the curriculum of national culture, which they have begun to teach only recently, and people complain that it is insufficient."
Walid Al-Sinani: "Even before they began teaching it..."
Interviewer: "You deprived your children of a school education 23 years ago, before anyone even imagined teaching something like this."
Walid Al-Sinani: "Before they began teaching this subject, pagan nationalism, in the abhorrent secular sense, was already entrenched in the school curricula, as were, to an even greater extent, the concepts of pan-Arabism and humanism." [...]
"If there were no false curricula in the Koran memorization schools..."
Interviewer: "What false curricula?! These are Koran memorization schools."
Walid Al-Sinani: "They praise the tyrannical international institutions..."
Interviewer: "What international tyranny?! We're talking about Koran memorization."
Walid Al-Sinani: "I enrolled my son in one of them, and removed him after a while. These curricula praise the United Nations of Tyranny, the Arab League of Accused Infidels, and the Gulf Cooperation Council of Infidel Tyrants for Sin and Aggression – all those infidel, Americanized, Karzai-esque traitors. This is in addition to all the secular humanism... When we were small children, they used to teach us that the Saudi Kingdom was praiseworthy for calling to abolish all enmities between states and nations, and that relations between countries should be based on friendship, brotherhood, and mutual respect."
Interviewer: "So what do you want to do? Fight the whole world?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Among the loftiest principles of all the books of Allah and his prophets is the principle of takfir, enmity towards the infidels, disavowal of the infidels, and waging Jihad against them, as decreed by Allah." [...]
"Some TV Channels Excel In Their Anti-Islamism, Like The Accursed Al-Amerikiya TV, Which Is Called Al-Arabiya TV"
"Some of the organizations fighting in Syria are Islamic, and some are not. I disavow all the organizations that are not Islamic. I support Jabhat Al-Nusra and the brothers in ISIS."
Interviewer: "You follow these events?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Yes."
Walid Al-Sinani: "I watch the news on Al-Jazeera TV."
Interviewer: "So you watch TV?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Yes, I do."
Interviewer: "But in the past, you did not have a TV set at home?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "They still don't."
Interviewer: "You deprive your children of watching TV?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "They don't want to watch it."
Interviewer: "Let's be honest, Walid. You deprive them of it. Your little children don't watch cartoons at home? You deprive them, but the day you entered prison, you started watching TV yourself."
Walid Al-Sinani: "They don't have a TV. They get their news from the computer, from the Internet."
Interviewer: "On the computer, you can get..."
Walid Al-Sinani: I know, there are worse things on the Internet."
Interviewer: "You can get Islamic channels on TV now. On the Saudi Koran TV, all you get is a picture of the Kaaba and recitations of the Koran. Is that haram?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "No, but there are images of people..."
Interviewer: "What people? It's an image of the Kaaba."
Walid Al-Sinani: "Let's not digress. I watch the news. I am against all these channels, but Al-Jazeera TV is the lesser evil and is sympathetic toward the Islamists. I still renounce it, because it does not follow the principles of allegiance and disavowal, and is not hostile to the infidels."
Interviewer: "Al-Jazeera TV interviews Israelis. Do you watch these interviews?"
Walid Al-Sinani: Al-Jazeera Interviews people who are worse than the Israelis, worse than the Jews, but it is not anti-Islamic. Some TV channels excel in their anti-Islamism, like the accursed Al-Amerikiya TV, which is called Al-Arabiya TV. That TV channel is a clear enemy of Jihad and monotheism. The official Saudi channels are even more biased towards the secularist than you are." [...]
"If Infidels Use Muslims As Human Shields, And There Are Fears That These Muslims Might Be Harmed, The Infidels Should Be Killed, Even If It Results In The Killing Of The Muslims, Who Would Become Martyrs."
Interviewer: "What do you say about the bombing of Al-Mohaya Compound, for example, where Muslims were killed?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "I don't need to answer that. It has been answered by the ancient scholars."
Interviewer: "What did they say?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Ibn Taymiyyah ruled, relying on a consensus of the religious scholars, that if infidels use Muslims as human shields, and there are fears that these Muslims might be harmed, the infidels should be killed, even if it results in the killing of the Muslims, who would become martyrs."
"Most of the people killed at Al-Mohaya Compound were infidels."
Interviewer: "What infidels?! Most of them were Muslims. I can show you the figures."
Walid Al-Sinani: "There may have been some Muslims, but the majority were infidels."
Interviewer: "I am telling you that most of them were Muslims, not infidels!"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Apostates are..."
Interviewer: "They were Muslims. Children were killed. A girl of seven or eight was killed. What did she do to deserve that?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "The international killing of women and children is prohibited."
Interviewer: "What about police members?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Let me finish. International killing of women and children is prohibited, but if they are killed inadvertently..."
Interviewer: "It's allowed?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "It can be absolved." [...]
"The Koran and the Sunna don't merely permit, but mandate rebelling against a ruler who acts like an infidel. Moreover, Allah made it a duty to fight the infidels..."
Interviewer: "That's your opinion, but others would say these are not infidels. Sheik Ibn Baz, Sheik Ibn Al-Uthaymeen, the Council of Senior Scholars..."
Walid Al-Sinani: "You mean the Council of Senior Collaborators..."
Interviewer: "That's your opinion." [...]
"What do you say about an attack on the traffic police, in an area where Muslim Saudi citizens live?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "The tyrants...
Interviewer: "What tyrants?! We're talking about the traffic police."
Walid Al-Sinani: "Listen, the soldiers who protect the tyrants..."
Interviewer: "So all the citizens are tyrants..."
Walid Al-Sinani: "No, there's a distinction..."
Interviewer: "If the state and the soldiers are all tyrants, what does that make us?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Don't mix things..."
Interviewer: "It is you who are mixing things..."
Walid Al-Sinani: "Don't put words into my mouth."
Interviewer: "I'm only asking."
Walid Al-Sinani: "We distinguish between their soldiers..."
Interviewer: "Do you accuse the soldiers of heresy?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "An Islamic principle requires us to pass judgment on people, based on what we see. The soldiers of infidel tyrants are judged to be part of them." [...]
"If I Am Released, I Intend To Go On Jihad If I Can."
Interviewer: "So you support everything that Al-Qaeda does, right?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Only the things they do in keeping with justice. They are not infallible, they are liable to make mistakes."
Interviewer: "But you do support their way of action, in Saudi Arabia as well?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "One should draw a distinction between the path and personal conduct. A person may follow the right path but still err. I'm 100% in favor of Al-Qaeda's path of accusing the apostate tyrants of heresy, against whom Jihad must be waged." [...]
Interviewer: "If they release you from prison, will you stay here or leave?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "If I am released, I intend to go on Jihad if I can."
Interviewer: "Where will you go?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "I will see where my children go..."
Interviewer: "Where will your children go?! Can they even tolerate living in tents? Your children live a comfortable life in Saudi Arabia. Can they go and live in Afghanistan?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Yes. I used to live a life of comfort, and I gave it up for a real life in Afghanistan."
Interviewer: "But you didn't stay there..."
Walid Al-Sinani: "Our brother Bin Laden, Allah's mercy upon him, was a billionaire, and he gave it all up to become the leader of the mujahideen, until he was killed."
Interviewer: "Bin Laden used to eat halva all day, and settled down with his four wives in that palace. Have you forgotten in what kind of house he was captured? He had four wives there."
Walid Al-Sinani: "He was killed, not captured.
Interviewer: "Right. When he was killed, he had four wives." [...]
"If they release you and you go to Afghanistan, what will you do there?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Victory or martyrdom. That's it."
Interviewer: "Will you leave your children here or take them with you?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "If I can I will tell my sons to come with me." [...]
"They want me to make promises in return for my release. I will not make even the smallest commitment, not even verbally, as long as I live."
Interviewer: "You are mixing religion and politics."
Walid Al-Sinani: "The secularists do. Politics should be governed by religion." [...]
Interviewer: "[Some Islamists] slaughter people..."
Walid Al-Sinani: "The secularists did the slaughtering. Besides, whoever slaughters people justly is worthy of gratitude."
Interviewer: "Can the slaughtering of people ever be just?"
Walid Al-Sinani: "Yes."
Interviewer: "We are talking about Muslims, about children."
Walid Al-Sinani: "Ali bin Abu Taleb lit a fire and threw the Shiite who deified him into it. All the Prophet's Companions justified him, but said he should have killed them by the sword, not by fire."