The following excerpts are from a TV debate on Holocaust denial, which aired on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on May 5, 2010.
To view this clip on MEMRI TV, visit http://www.memri.org/legacy/clip/0/0/0/0/0/0/2474.
Representative from Jordanian Association Against Zionism and Racism: "They have Not Managed to Bring a Shred of Evidence" that the Holocaust Occurred
Interviewer: "It is a myth that has almost become a conviction. If it really happened, why was it restricted to one group alone? The questions are: Did the Holocaust really take place? Did the gas chambers indeed consume the Jews, but nobody else? Did gas chambers even exist? Most importantly, why do some people doubt this? Don't historians have the right to reexamine the so-called taboos?" [...]
Ali Hatar (Jordanian Association against Zionism and Racism): "Did it or did it not happen? That is the question. To this day, those who claim that [the Holocaust] did take place have been unable to provide any evidence whatsoever to that effect."
Interviewer: "None whatsoever?"
Ali Hatar: "No evidence whatsoever. Of course, some political analyses and some..."
Interviewer: "That's another matter."
Ali Hatar: "They often say: 'It happened – what proof do you want?' That's another matter. But to bring a single piece of evidence..."
Interviewer: "They didn't."
Ali Hatar: "We are not saying that it didn't happen. We are saying: Give us some evidence. They have not managed to bring a shred of evidence. I challenge them to do so. Therefore, they have prevented historical revisionists from investigating this. Their first opponents were the Americans. They fired them from their positions and kicked them out of their jobs. We will go over their names later. They prevented them from investigating." [...]
Democratic Party Activist: Holocaust Denial Doesn't Help Arabs and Muslims
Mahdi Al-Afifi (Democratic Party activist, New York): "I'm sure that my colleague has access to the Internet. He should check out the thousands of booklets written about the Holocaust." [...]
Ali Hatar: "This is a Red Cross report from 1949. The Red Cross is an international institution. This is a Red Cross report – an international institution. It is from 1949, and it is about the five years of war. Its committees operated throughout Europe. This report refutes the claim that anyone was killed in these camps, during the so-called Holocaust. It also mentions the self-management [of the camps] by the Jews. These are not my words. I didn't write the report. It is a report of the ICRC – the Red Cross." [...]
Mahdi Al-Afifi: "This makes a mockery of people's intelligence. The Holocaust took place, and our attempts to use information that is not..."
Interviewer: "Okay, Dr. Mahdi Al-Afifi..."
Mahdi Al-Afifi: "...does not help the Arabs or the Muslims. [...]
"This just causes pointless hatred."
Representative from Jordanian Association Against Zionism and Racism: There is Only One Book Ever Written Arguing that the Holocaust Occurred
Ali Hatar: "We seek the truth, and only then will we consider our position. We seek the truth because this hatred that you are talking about is what caused Gaza. It affects us. The U.S. gives Israel 11 billion dollars, and Germany gives it 3 billion dollars annually. That is how the Holocaust affects us. They planted Israel in our midst. That is the result of the Holocaust. What hatred are you talking about? [...]
"He talks about thousands of books. This is the same kind of exaggeration as the figure 'six million.' There are no 'thousands' of books written about the Holocaust. There might be a single book claiming that the [Holocaust] took place – Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers. This book is extremely idiotic, scientifically speaking. There are also a few articles, most of which I have read, but the high quality of the doubters' research is notable."
Interviewer: Why did you call that book 'idiotic'?
Ali Hatar: Because it deals with technical issues. When we were children, we used to ask each other a riddle: 'How do you put an elephant into a fridge in three moves?' The answer was: 'You open the door, put in the elephant, then close the door.' That book uses the same logic – you bring 2,000 [Jews], open the door, put them inside, you close the door, and you burn them. How did they get there? How did you transport them?
Interviewer: "There's just one book, not thousands, as Dr. Mahdi Al-Afifi claims?"
Ali Hatar: "One book. Let me mention it again, so he can look for it – The Operation and Technique of the Gas Chambers. Where did you come up with the figure of thousands, when there's only one book?"
Mahdi Al-Afifi: "Brother, this is just in order to show you, you can read it... [holds up copy of Elie Wiesel's book 'Night'] Hundreds of books are taught in American schools and universities. I brought one little book, just as an example. With all due respect, brother, I don't know where you got your information. I'm sure you have Internet. Go to Google, and enter the word 'Holocaust,' and see how many books there are. This author alone has written 40 books about the Holocaust." [...]
Representative from Jordanian Association Against Zionism and Racism: "I am Duty Bound to Say to the Germans: 'Oh German, Don't be Stupid; Check if It Really Happened'"
Ali Hatar: "The purpose of [inventing] the Holocaust was to create a guilt complex among the German and European people, so that this guilt complex would motivate the Germans and their rulers to remain... A U.S. Congress report, which I have here, deals with the impact of this guilt complex on the German rulers, who extended aid to Israel. Today, we are the victims of this ongoing aid, which continues because of the guilt complex... I am duty bound to say to the Germans: 'Oh German, don't be stupid. Check if it really happened.' [...]
Interviewer: "Do gas chambers exist, Doctor? After all, you are an air-conditioning engineer."
Ali Hatar: "There were chambers that were used as prisons. Other chambers may have been used, towards the end of the war, to burn the corpses of some people who died of typhoid fever. But according to the reports – especially the Red Cross report, and the book Did Six Million Die?, which is an American book – there were no gas chambers, in the sense referred to in the Holocaust issue.
"What do those who support the existence of gas chambers say? They say these chambers were 500 cubic meters in size, and that they used to put 2,000 to 4,000 people inside. 500 cubic meters – if it was 5 meters high, its area would have been 100 square meters. How can you possibly put 2,000 people into 100 square meters? Just imagine, they say that [the Nazis] put 2,000 to 4,000 victims in each 'cooking.' There are no chambers... If you travel to the U.S. and visit the chambers for execution by gas – they use the same gas – you will see how well-controlled these chambers must be. [...]
"I work in air-conditioning of pharmaceutical plants, and we sterilize the plant from time to time, and keep the air-conditioning going for 24 hours after the sterilization, in order to disperse the lethal gas. Here they say that within 20 minutes, they would clear the chamber and it would be clean. How can you possibly remove 2,000 corpses, and clear the chamber in 20 minutes?! This cannot be." [...]
Representative from Jordanian Association Against Zionism and Racism: "There was Complete Coordination between Hitler's Regime and the Zionist Movement"
"This book, Hitler, the Founder of Israel, and many other books and even Western reports, say that Eichmann and the head of the Haganah coordinated the deportation of the Jews. Hitler said: My lawyer is Jewish, my doctor is Jewish, everybody around me is Jewish. He used to say to them: 'When we come to power, we must establish a state for the Jews. The solution to the Jewish problem lies in finding a state for them.'"This is one of the most important points, which must not be neglected. Hitler banned all the Jewish parties in Germany, except for the Zionist party. He banned all the other Jewish parties – religious and others. He permitted only the party that was associated with the Zionist movement. Eichmann went to the detention camps to give the Jews self-administration. Menachem Begin headed 40,000 people in a detention camp in Poland. Eichmann allowed him to train the Jewish youth in agriculture to prepare them for when they would go to Palestine. He organized Hebrew courses for them, in order to unite them and prepare them for Palestine. There was complete coordination between Hitler's regime and the Zionist movement, and this coordination is verified in all the books."