The following are excerpts from an interview[1]with Umm Hamza, the wife of Djamel Beghal. Beghal is described as "a leading figure of Al Qaeda in Europe" who was "arrested shortly before the 9/11 attacks in Abu Dhabi where he was tortured and confessed a bomb-attack plot. On the basis of these confessions, he was convicted in France under the offense of 'criminal association in relation with a terrorist undertaking.' He served a 10 years sentence. After his release, he was re-arrested and is currently in pre-trial detention."
The interview was conducted by Cageprisoners, a London-based organization founded in 2003 and headed by Moazzam Begg, a former Guantanamo prisoner who was released without charge in 2005. It calls itself a "human rights organization... that exists solely to raise awareness of the plight of the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and other detainees held as part of the War on Terror." It has faced local and international criticism for its championing of Anwar Al-Awlaki and for its support for Khalid Sheikh Muhammad; Dr. Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani serving a life sentence in the U.S.; "high-value" Guantanamo detainee Abu Zubaydah; Ibn Al-Sheikh Al-Libi, an Al-Qaeda operative who reportedly committed suicide in Libyan custody after being repatriated by the U.S.; prominent jihadist Abu Mus'ab Al-Suri;[2] and American-born Taliban member John Walker Lindh.[3]
The following are excerpts from the interview:
Umm Hamza on Their Life in Afghanistan and Beghal's Arrest in Dubai
Cageprisoners: "Could you please introduce yourself and your family?"
Umm Hamza: "My name is Sylvie Beghal. I am the mother of four: Hamza, Mehdi, Zaynab, and Maryam. We have been living in in the U.K. since 2004. My children and I are French nationals."
Cageprisoners: "Let us go back few years. Could you explain us why you and your husband decided to leave Europe to live in Afghanistan at the beginning of the 2000's?"
Umm Hamza: "After several years of war, the country was getting slowly rebuilt, and it had been proclaimed an 'Islamic emirate.' As Muslims, we decided to try moving there. It is important to state that we went there in times of peace and that my husband was arrested before the 9/11 attacks."
Cageprisoners: "Could you describe your life over there?"
Umm Hamza: "We did not stay that long, especially my husband, as he left eight months after we arrived. Our life was simple but we were happy. It took us few weeks to get used to it, especially because of the weather. My husband would go out regularly. He had a lot to explore in this unknown country in order to maintain us. As for me, I met sisters whom I used to see regularly. Our children went to school at the beginning. They were happy. Of course, life in Afghanistan is different from Western life, but the most important aspect is that it is neither a material life nor one of abundance. We were happy. The few months we spent there with my husband are unforgettable."
Cageprisoners: "Then, in July 2001, your husband was arrested. Could you explain us the circumstances of his arrest?"
Umm Hamza: "He was arrested in Dubai while he was coming from Pakistan. He was accompanying a friend's family. One of their children was sick and could not handle life in Afghanistan anymore. As the passport of this friend had expired, he asked my husband to take his family back to Morocco. My husband had his French passport and was arrested without being given any reason. He was detained and tortured horribly for two months. He was forced to confess to a bomb-attack plot against the American Cultural Centre in France. Later, they realized that this centre did not exist anymore. They changed the target, saying that it was actually the American embassy."
Cageprisoners: "What happened to you then?"
Umm Hamza: "At the beginning, we stayed where we were. My husband was away but he was meant to come back. He was meant to leave for two to three weeks maximum. It was the time that he needed to arrive in Pakistan, get some flight tickets, leave, and come back. That was meant to be quick, so we stayed there. We waited for him. I started to gather our stuff because we had planned to move into a small village close by. We waited. Then, there were rumors. It was said that he had been arrested in Pakistan, that he was detained and about to be released. One day we were told: 'he's here, he's coming!' That was not the case. Days were passing and hope was diminishing until we realized that something grave happened. We knew that it would probably affect us for several years. Since then, my priority has been my children. I wanted them to go through this experience in the best way."
Cageprisoners: "Were you aware of his situation in the Emirati jail?"
Umm Hamza: "At the beginning, I wasn't. It was only conjectures. When I understood that he would not come back, I assumed that, being a French citizen, he would be immediately repatriated to France. There was no reason for the situation to get bad. As long as I did not receive any news, I thought that he was in France. Then, later in October, I got news from the radio. It was said that Djamel Beghal had just been repatriated to France and that he was accused of so-and-so. I understood that for all this time, he was jailed in the Emirates. I thought that he was tortured there and I understood the crazy accusations against him."
Cageprisoners: "So, you did not hear anything from your husband for these two months?"
Umm Hamza: "No. I only had news from the radio."
Cageprisoners: "What was your condition at that time?"
Umm Hamza: "At the beginning of September, our children simply went back to school. The war had not started yet. I did not want to hurry our return to France because I knew that I would not have been left in peace there. I was afraid of being separated from my children. France had allowed my husband to be detained for two months during which time he had probably been tortured. I could not trust them after that.
"We were under the responsibility of a friend. We did not know what the future would be like. The 9/11 attacks had just happened. That also played a role in my decision. We therefore stayed there. Then, the American strikes started on the 7th of October. We were in Jalalabad. My main concern was to preserve my children and avoid any trauma. We tried to stay calm for them. We had to move from one place to another, taking very little with us. The people who were taking care of us did their best to protect us. We were on the run for several months until we managed to negotiate our exit from Afghanistan. That was difficult for the children. We had to keep a very low profile. We had to be very careful. They could not play outside. We could absolutely not speak Arabic because they were after Arabs at that time. We had to hide. We were tracked. We felt that everything could change in a second. That's how we lived after my husband's repatriation."
Returning to France, and Description of Torture in UAE Prison
Cageprisoners: "How did you get back to France?"
Umm Hamza: "After getting out of Afghanistan and Pakistan, we arrived in Iran. Police services found us there. After several weeks, they contacted the French embassy. I was repatriated to France with my children in March 2002."
Cageprisoners: "Coming back to your husband, he was detained for four years before being judged. How did you manage to maintain a link with him?"
Umm Hamza: "When we came back to France, we started to write to each other. Before that, there was nothing at all. What we did first is to try to obtain the right to visit him. That was refused to me for a year. My children would visit him sometimes, one after the other, with one of their aunts. In March 2003, I obtained the right to visit him. We visited him as much as it was allowed: three times a week. Half an hour per visit, three times a week with my children when they were not at school."
Cageprisoners: "During his trial, he described the torture he suffered in the UAE (which included freezing temperatures, beatings to the soles of his feet, his toe nails and teeth were ripped out, he was sleep deprived and deafening noises were inflicted upon his person. He was also tortured on his fingers with a 'sort of can-opener' and a 'kind of knitting needle' was used on his private parts). Did you know about it and how did you feel hearing that?"
Umm Hamza: "When I came back to France, I read few articles talking about it but there were no details. We did not talk about it during our visits. Then, I started to see the papers during the trial. His lawyers used to give me the records of the trial, especially those of January 10th. On that day, he could talk. He had to struggle to be allowed to tell what happened. He talked about it to defend himself. I thought of him, about his loneliness. The only thing I wanted was for him to come back to his family and to see this nightmare ending. I wanted them to stop going fiercely at him. I was reading, crying, without understanding. I was naive. I could not understand how human beings could do such things to others. I was in another world. I could not understand. I wondered how we could fix that. I wondered how he would be able to go beyond all of that. I wondered what hatred was guiding these people. I thought about the French justice which left him being tortured there. I understood that these people were accomplices of each other and that they were game for anything to condemn him. I felt very sad for my husband."
Cageprisoners: "How did you react when he received the maximum sentence (10 years)?"
Umm Hamza: "Honestly, I expected it. We knew that it would be the maximum sentence. Having seen these four years, I understood that they kind of plotted against him and that torture was part of that plot. They were ready to do anything. The most important thing for me was to protect the children. I wanted to prevent any psychological trauma. I was scared that it could cause them grave problems. We reacted according to our faith as Muslims. We tried to be patient. It has been our stance since then by the grace of Allah. Alhamdulillah."
Placement in Solitary Confinement to Prevent Da'wa
Cageprisoners: "In what conditions did your husband serve his sentence?"
Umm Hamza: "He received the maximum sentence. He spent eight and a half years in prison, including seven years in complete solitary confinement. It means 22 or 23 hours a day completely alone in a 9 square meter cell. Very often it is dirty and dilapidated. Most of the time, windows are covered with barbed wires to the extent that no light can be seen. As for their recreations, they are alone, indoors. Putting them outside is out of question. My husband used to tell me that they hurt their knees by walking within so small spaces. They are constantly alone, even to do sport. They put him on an indoor bike trainer in a room as small as a cupboard, a kind of storeroom. He even refused to use it. Can you practice sport in a storeroom? He spent a year and a half in a cell without any window. Light is permanently switched on. It is either too hot or too cold. There is the noise made by the keys on the bars when the guards have decided to bother you and to prevent you from sleeping. It engenders sleeping and psychological problems. France is well known for the lamentable conditions of its prisons. If it was not for Allah, I think that he would have become mad or committed suicide. All his petitions were rejected. Theoretically, there are procedures, but when they have decided that they will not let you out, you will not come out, except by the grace of Allah of course. A year or a year and a half before the end of his sentence, after several legal battles, he came out of this regime. Alhamdulillah."
Cageprisoners: "Why was he placed in solitary confinement?"
Umm Hamza: "According to the prison authorities and from what I read in the motivations justifying the isolation, it was to prevent proselytism. He was giving da'wa or talking about Islam. We were surprised because he was placed in solitary confinement from the very beginning. How can you proselytize when you are alone 23 hours a day? Even during his recreation he cannot talk to anybody..."
Cageprisoners: "What was your life like during these eight and a half years?"
Umm Hamza: "Our life was aimed at maintaining a link with him. We wanted the children to be affected as little as possible by this situation. Having a husband or a father in jail is a special life. Only people who went through this experience can understand it. It fractured our daily life. We constantly think about the future of our children. We always have that in mind. Ten years have passed. It cannot be ten years lost. It has to be ten years constructed for the children. We have to transform this tribulation into something beneficial."
Leaving France for the U.K.
Cageprisoners: "Why did you leave France to live in the U.K.?"
Umm Hamza: "Mainly for religious reasons. I wanted to educate my children surrounded by Muslim brothers and sisters. It wasn't really possible. I wanted help for my children. I wanted them to live in an Islamic environment. It is not possible in France since we cannot really live in community. Most of all, I was asked to remove my headscarf to work. For me, it was unimaginable. I was not ready to make that kind of compromise."
Cageprisoners: "Could you describe Djamel Beghal, the man you know?"
Umm Hamza: "He is a very friendly and helpful man. He is always willing to help everybody. He is known for that. He is very close to his family and mindful of his children's education. He is very close to his children. He is a smiling person. As he said himself, he is permanently seeking religious knowledge. He has relationships with everybody: Muslims and non-Muslims."
Cageprisoners: "It differs from the way he was portrayed in the media. How do you feel about this description?"
Umm Hamza: "That revolts me. When I read portrayals made by people who do not even know him simply to destroy his reputation, I find it revolting. Especially when I see how far they went and what consequences it had. They used his religious side, which he does not deny by the way, and the fact that we went to Afghanistan to draw the picture of a dangerous terrorist; while it is not the case. Why would it be forbidden to live in Afghanistan? Why wouldn't we have the right to live differently, just as we wish? They could not accept that, so they fended our intentions off. That's exactly what happened: they fended off our intentions and my husband's intentions. He was tortured to obtain false confessions."
Cageprisoners: "Before his release, he was stripped of his French nationality. What is his current administrative situation?"
Umm Hamza: "Nothing doing. He has been deprived of his French citizenship since 2006. He does not have Algerian documents either."
Cageprisoners: "After his release, what were your plans?"
Umm Hamza: "We had started the administrative process to bring him over, so that he can join us. That was the only possible choice since our children have been stably living here for years. They are studying. We can't leave and stop them at this crucial moment."
Placement Under House Arrest in France
Cageprisoners: "Everything collapsed when he was put under house arrest in a small village in France?"
Umm Hamza: "That was expected. We knew it because there was a complaint before the European Court of Human Rights to prevent his deportation to Algeria. We started the administrative process while waiting for the decision."
Cageprisoners: "Could you visit him regularly?"
Umm Hamza: "Theoretically, there was no restriction to visit him. However, in practice we could not go and see him regularly. That was a long trip. That was expensive and difficult to organize. We could not stay over all at the same time. Within a year of house arrest, we were able to spend only five weeks together. We had to camp because the hotel room was too small for four people. We organized other trips but I would go on my own. I went once with my daughter. My two sons visited him together another time. The only moment we spent in family was in summer in that camping site."
Cageprisoners: "How was your family affected by all these years of separation?"
Umm Hamza: "These ten years are gone. That's a disturbed life, a marginal life. My children and I feel restrained in our relations. We cannot say to everybody that our father or husband is jailed and accused of being a terrorist. We naturally restricted our relations with people. That was especially difficult for my children when they were kids. Sometimes children talk without bad intentions to people that could cause us troubles. Not having their father with them has also been a massive difference. They probably feel more vulnerable. There is no holiday for them. Their holidays are visits in prison, miles in a car... even if we go to France and visit my family. As for me, I am alone to carry the responsibility of their education. That's quite frightening. Today my oldest son has to take into account the situation of his father with regards to his studies. He wanted to do something but he will have to do something else. If my husband is freed, we cannot leave him alone. My son does not know if he should start long or short studies. Will we have to leave? That's destabilizing. What will happen if he was to be sentenced again? All these question marks must perturb them even if they don't talk about it. They have to face that kind of dilemma at their age while they should be in peace to finish their studies and start their adult life. That will certainly have an impact on their lives. It is probably a bit early to understand what they missed. We make a lot of du'aa. May Allah help them."
Cageprisoners: "Ameen. As the family of somebody convicted for terrorism, how are you treated by the general public?"
Umm Hamza: "As I said, we select our friends. Our circle of friends is quite restricted to avoid having to explain our situation. Sometimes we don't have a choice. That's the case when we travel for example. We are systematically arrested in front of everybody. We are questioned and searched. This is a manifest harassment. They arrest a woman with her children and say: 'you know, we have to protect the population and prevent bombs from exploding.' That's how they talk to us. Trips are difficult to organize and now it has become a fear. I have been arrested several times, so has my oldest son."
Cageprisoners "Do you receive any support?"
Umm Hamza: "Praise be to God. My family in France helps me as much as their means allow them to do so. They host us and facilitate my trip. Going to France is not like going for holidays. But Alhamdulillah they support me."
Cageprisoners: "What about the Muslim community?"
Umm Hamza: "Alhamdulillah, I have always received support from my community, from the people around me. That's a very restricted circle but they have always supported me mashaAllah. We also receive a bit of support from France but we feel more isolated. Some brothers and sisters have been living this trial with us for several years now. They support us psychologically. They help me to organize trips and to take care of my children. May Allah reward them, especially HHUGS. They do an amazing job to support families. I cannot thank them enough. May Allah reward them. MashaAllah."
Cageprisoners: "Coming back to your husband, Wikileaks has revealed that he was convicted without evidence. How do you react?"
Umm Hamza: "When I read that I felt revolted and extremely angry. I was disgusted by this injustice completely ignored. I don't know if you realize; my husband spent eight and a half years in prison and a year under house arrest, my children were deprived from their father and a judge declares very calmly: 'there was not enough evidence to convict him but we manage to do so because of our reputation.' All of that without being held into account. That is revolting. I thought about my husband who spent all these years in complete isolation with his pain. I thought about my children deprived of their rights. That is revolting."
Cageprisoners: "This attitude towards your husband seems to carry on since he has been arrested again in May 2010. While still under house arrest, he was accused of preparing the escape of a prisoner incarcerated hundreds of kilometers away from him. How did you receive the news?"
Umm Hamza: "I was very shocked. I could not realize. I did not expect it at all. He had been released just a year before. We had plans. We all have been very shocked. And plus we just had Maryam. She was born just three weeks before. We were meant to meet up so that he could see our baby. I was shocked. The only thing that came to my mind is: we have to stay calm and protect our children. I tried to give them the news in a calm manner to avoid any shock... to carry on. I did not understand. This story is not understandable. I stayed like that for several months."
Currently in Solitary Confinement
Cageprisoners: "What is the condition of your husband?"
Umm Hamza: "At the moment, he is incarcerated in solitary confinement. All his complaints to leave this regime have been rejected. After almost a year, he has been interrogated only three times. If there was a lot to discover, he would have been interrogated more than that. He was denied access to the file detailing the accusations against him. Investigations are still going on until a possible trial."
Cageprisoners: "What do you hope to achieve for his case?"
Umm Hamza: "I hope that he will be cleared and released. That's what my children and I wish. He has nothing to do in prison. But to be honest, I am quite worried after the revelation made by Wikileaks. It clearly shows the way the anti-terrorist judges operate in France. After the manipulations and machinations that occurred during the first trial, I can only be worried. They have no limit."
Cageprisoners: "Would you like to address any message to our readers?"
Umm Hamza: "To your readers and to the families tested like us. I know there are loads of them. I simply would like to remind them with what I remind myself and my family. In this life, no affliction is in vain for a Muslim. Hoping the reward of Allah, he will be among the winners. By the grace of Allah, he will be among the winners. One needs to defend himself and have patience. Having patience does not mean being passive. My family and I thank those who help us in our tribulation. Your organization is among them. May Allah reward you."
Cageprisoners: "May Allah preserve you and your family."
Endnotes:
[1] Cageprisoners.com, October 12, 2011. The original English has been lightly edited for clarity.
