British Islamist Anjem Choudary in Interview on Bin Laden's Death: Bin Laden 'Is the First... of a Whole New Generation... Who Believe Very Firmly In Their Hearts in the Concept Of Jihad' – And Obama Is 'At the Head of the Camp Of Disbelief'

The video could not be found on CNN.com.

Sheikh Anjem Choudary is a well-known British Islamist who, prior to the April 29, 2011 royal wedding in the U.K., warned that it was a potential target for radical Muslims.[3] He is part of a group called Muslims Against Crusades (muslimsagainstcrusades.com),[4] and headed the British group "Islam 4 UK" until it was banned as a terrorist organization in 2010. He has participated in the activities of "Shariah 4 Belgium," an Islamist group calling for the establishment of shari'a law in Belgium and The Netherlands.

The following is the transcript of the interview.

Bin Laden "Is the First... of a Whole New Generation... Who Believe Very Firmly In Their Hearts In the Concept Of Jihad"

Interviewer: "What's your response to the news that Osama bin Laden has been killed?"

Choudary: I think that Sheikh Osama bin Laden, in fact, is symbolic of the struggle by the Muslims to liberate their land. He is at the head of the [unintelligible] Islam; liberating Muslim land; defending the life, honor, and property of the Muslims; working to establish the shari'a. Therefore, undoubtedly, the Muslims will be sad. But his legacy is such that he is the first generation of a whole new generation of people who believe very firmly in their hearts in the concept of jihad, and therefore I think he will be remembered by many generations to come. The love for the jihad, the love for the shariah, is something that he imbibed [sic] in many hearts, and that is a blessing from Allah. We believe that the lifestyle is something which ultimately will [unclear] all our wishes.

"So, he was going to die today, or whenever he died, as a matter of fact, that is what Allah determined for him. But what he left behind, I think, is phenomenal. The concept of jihad – Al-Qaeda as a phenomenon of resistance against occupation is something spread right around the world, and you can see in Somalia, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Chechnya, in Azerbaijan – people attribute themselves to Al-Qaeda and Sheikh Osama bin Laden, even though they've never met him in their lives."

Bin Laden "Revived the Concept of Worshiping Allah Alone, The Concept Of There Are Two Camps In the World"

Interviewer: "How important has he been to you personally, along the journey you've made? How important a figure is he in your life?"

Choudary: "Well, I think he's very significant. I do believe that Sheikh Osama bin Laden is the revivalist of this century. Allah tells us that every 100 years he will send someone to revive the religion of Islam, so I think he revived the concept of worshiping Allah alone; the concept of there are two camps in the world – the camp of believers and the camp of disbelievers – and the idea, the concept of jihad – to liberate Muslim land, to defend life, honor, and property, and to spread Islam all over the world. That is something which I think was in our divine text, but he brought it to the fore, and people talk about it now in normal conversations. So he is a very significant figure. I don't think that any Muslim can say that, truthfully, he did not have an impact in their lives."

Interviewer: "I turn to you and ask you a similar sort of question. How do you reflect on Osama bin Laden in terms of the help he's given to you in your life?

Man: "Personally, I think he was a great man. What is there not to love about him? A man, who had everything, but gave it up for the sake of Allah. The ultimate goal of the Muslim in this land is to please Allah, and obviously, that is the way forward."

Interviewer: "When were you first made aware of Osama bin Laden's teachings and what he had to say? Can you reflect back on how you felt as you heard him speak?"

Man: "First time I heard of him was 9/11, obviously, and I started listening to him more and started seeing him. When nobody else was speaking the truth, he was for the Muslims."

Interviewer: "I want to come over here and ask you a similar sort of question. When were you first aware of Osama bin Laden?

Man No. 2: "I was introduced to the name Osama bin Laden shortly after the 9/11 attacks. Before that I didn't really know who he was. But when 9/11 did occur it forced me to inquire about who this person was, what his message was about, and I realized this man – he was someone who stands up for the truth. He was someone that was against any form of occupation, and he was someone who really defended the Muslim world, and I think that many Muslims – not just me – they look to him in that light. He is a symbol of someone who stands up for Islam and speaks out against any kind of oppression that is going on anywhere in the world against the Muslims, and I think he will be remembered for a very long time."

Interviewer: "When you heard the news today that he'd been killed, what was your reaction?"

Man No. 2: "My reaction was obviously... inside there was a small feeling, or a large feeling of regret, and being upset about his death. But I think in the bigger picture, if you look at the larger picture you will find that he was symbol of resistance against Western occupation, and I think indeed that his death was one of the worst things that could have happened to America and the West because now there are many more people who will rise up and be radicalized and revived from his death and look to what he really preached and what he called for, so I think that this is not a time for the West to rejoice, really. I think it is something that they should be concerned about because there are millions of Muslims around the world who will look to these events, and look to the death of Osama bin Laden, and they will carry on preaching his message all around the world."

Interviewer: "Would anybody here describe their reaction as angry when they heard the news? Would anybody characterize it in those sort of terms?"

Choudary: "Angry about what exactly?"

Interviewer: "Angry perhaps the manner of his death? The fact that his body was apparently dumped in the sea... Does anybody... was there a sense of inevitability about it in the sense that you haven't heard from him in a long time..."

Man No. 3: "In terms of the way they dealt with the body, you can see... I'm sure that he was such a threat to the West, the figure he was, was such a big threat to the West, I am sure they did not just shoot him and kill him and chuck him in the sea. I'm sure there was a manner of torture, a manner of beating this man up. Maybe a lot of this happening. So yes, there is anger... In that sense, there is an anger, but the fact of the matter is that Allah said in the Koran, "Do not think that when they are dead, they are dead or they are living. Allah will grant them the best level of Paradise.' We ask Allah to grant him one of the best levels of Paradise, Inshallah."

All: "Inshallah."

"This Jihad Will Not Begin and End with Sheikh Osama Bin Laden; Every Mother Will Want To Give Birth Now To a Sheikh Osama Bin Laden"

Interviewer: "Everybody knows Osama bin Laden's time as an operational figure had passed. I think that's a reasonable thing to say. To what extent did he retain his importance as a current motivating figure, or had he been in some way superseded by someone like Anwar Al-Awlaki or other religious figures. I'll refer to you, Anjem – how do you see his influence?"

Choudary: "You can see very well that when Sheikh Osama bin Laden issued a statement, the whole of the world would listen to that statement. It would be played on every single media channel. In fact the leaders of the Western and the Eastern world would have to make a comment. Now that he's passed away, his mere death has meant that all leaders, all people who are important politically, must have their say on his death despite the fact that he was in hiding and he was in fact at the back of the front – meaning there were many people in the front line, in Tora Bora, in Afghanistan and Iraq, who are actually doing the fighting, but he is such an important figure that his videos, his statements resound all around the world and people continue to play them. They hang on his every word.

"So he is someone phenomenally important to the struggle. But then again, we can say the same thing about Sheikh Abu Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi, and as well about Abd Al-Aziz Al-Muqrin, Abu-Hajer, who are former leaders of the jihad on various fronts, so he would be one of many people who have been in the struggle and that have passed away, and other generations have come forward. I do believe that in terms of Al-Qaeda, he is the first generation, and behind him are second, third, fourth, and fifth generations. This struggle to liberate Muslim land is only beginning. I think the Americans have tasted what it means to be at war with Islam and Muslims with leaders like Sheikh Osama bin Laden [unclear] left behind, and the people who will now come forward, I think, will be the biggest nightmare for America because no longer would they have this... if you like... running roughshod over the Muslims and dictating to them, because now the Muslims have a point to prove – that this jihad will not begin and end with Sheikh Osama bin Laden.

"Every mother will want to give birth now to a Sheikh Osama bin Laden so he can be on the front line as well like this great man and people can remember them for years to come."

Al-Qaeda "Is a Phenomenon Of Resistance... [That] Finds Its Way All The Way From the Philippines and China and Indonesia To America, To Britain, and To the Heart Of Europe"

Interviewer: "...You don't think that global jihad is going to suffer as a result of this?"

Choudary: "No, not at all. Rather, instead of the global jihad suffering, what we find in fact is that people are today franchising themselves to Sheikh Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. So Al-Qaeda is no longer an organization with its own structure. It is a phenomenon of resistance and that phenomenon of resistance finds its way all the way from Philippines and China and Indonesia to America, to Britain, and to the heart of Europe. And with individuals like Sheikh Anwar Al-Awlaki, Sheikh Ayman Al-Zawahiri and other, this jihad is not going to finish with the death of one man, or even with the death of 10 or 100 men, because there are millions of people around the world who believe this phenomenon, because it is not something that he invented. It is something which is entrenched within the Koran and the sayings and actions of the Messenger Muhammad SAW [honorifics]. Indeed, the best man who ever walked the earth – the Prophet himself – passed away. So if the jihad was not stopped with him and his death, how can it stop with the likes of Sheikh Osama bin Laden passing away? It's impossible."

Interviewer: "I want to ask you. Can you remember when you first discovered Osama bin Laden?"

Man No. 3: "I think like everyone it was straight after 9/11. At that time I was in school. We didn't know much about this man. Bush made that famous statement: You are with us or the enemy. And we know what kind of enemy Bush was to the entire Muslim world, so as Muslims we can never be with someone like Bush – such an enemy to Islam and Muslims."

"So we had to research about this man, Osama bin Laden, and when you research about this man, the only thing you find is that your love for this man increases. He was the man who stood up to oppression. Unlike many people, whenever it came to any oppression in any front of the Muslim world until his death – he was the one who spoke out against it. And every time you hear about this man, you research about this man, your love just increases. What isn't there to love about this man? What was so wrong? Was it so wrong that he made this famous statement: Why does the building always fall on our heads? So he is the man who stood up to oppression, and he was the man who had this image in the West that will never remain silent until you stop with your oppression and Islam will be dominant over the entire world, because Islam is the religion which removes oppression."

Interviewer: "There were pictures this morning, or overnight, of Americans celebrating outside the White House. How do those images make you feel? What do you think when you see that?"

Man No. 3: "For them, they are obviously very stupid, because it is not a day for celebration. For the Muslims – they are the ones who are celebrating. Obviously, it is a loss for the Muslims nation that we lost such a great hero, but for the man himself, for him he has gained the highest level a Muslim can gain. So for the Muslims, although it is a loss for the Muslims, and we feel sorrow, but on the other side we also feel happiness for this man, because after all of these years of hardship, he sacrificed exclusively for the sake of Allah.

"Now, for the man, inshallah we say, he will have paradise inshallah for his struggles. And for them it is just a small time celebration, because this call has not finished with the death of one man. Rather, as Sheikh Anjem said, there were many men before him, and the greatest man to walk on this earth was the messenger Muhammad SAW, and he came with his message of jihad, and even with his death the jihad did not stop, but rather Islam today is in the heart of Europe with the same call of this jihad."

Obama Is "At The Head of the Camp Of Disbelief"; "You Have Two Types Of Violence... [Violence] Which Is Pro-Life Seeks To Liberate Muslim Land and Defend Life, Honor, and Property; That Which Is Against Life Is Orchestrated By the British and the Americans"

Interviewer: "What sort of impact do you think bin Laden has had on Muslims in general? I am asking in the context of... when the government will try and speak to certain Muslim groups that people characterize as moderate Muslim groups or radical Muslim groups. I wonder to what extent bin Laden would be the sort of totemic figure, I suppose, for, quote, radical Muslims. What influence do you think bin Laden has had across the faith, across the Ummah, with all those different shades of Muslim opinions, sects... How big a figure is he across the faith?"

Man No. 2: I think Sheikh Osama bin Laden is someone who is supported widely within the Muslim world, and he's also become a figure which separates those who are true to Islam and those who aren't. So, when you saw him come out and say his famous words, that the West will not feel peace and security until the Muslims in Palestine have peace and security, we found that the Muslims had to either stand up and support the cause of the jihad and the shari'a, or compromise. So I think Sheikh Osama bin Laden also saw many so-called Muslims, like the Muslim Council of Britain and other organizations, becoming lackeys of the government, and their stance and their position with the government, and being not with Islam, and opposing Islam, became so much more clear, and I think that was one of the benefits that Sheikh Osama bin Laden and his organization gave, not only to the Muslim world, but indeed to the entire world. The two camps became so distinct and so clear-cut, it was so clear to see who was on the truth, who was on Islam and who wasn't. So I definitely believe that was something beneficial and that the Muslims all around the world benefitted from that."

Interviewer: "The counter opinion that you might hear is that bin Laden was a very divisive figure."

Choudary: "I certainly do believe that the world is divided into two camps: the camp of belief and the camp of disbelief. At the head of the camp of belief was Sheikh Osama bin Laden. At the head of the camp of disbelief, at the current time, is Barack Obama. You have two types of violence: violence which is pro-life, and violence which is against life. That which is pro-life seeks to liberate Muslim land and defend life, honor, and property. That which is against life is orchestrated by the British and the Americans and their allies in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and now in Libya.

"So we can see that yes, certainly the world is two camps, but if you look closely you will find that those people who are not depressed and committing suicide when they come back home are the Mujahideen, because they believe in what they are struggling for. Those people who are happy to struggle, and they are not doing it for monetary gain, are those people who are following in the likes of Sheikh Osama bin Laden. They believe in the cause and they are franchised to Al-Qaeda right across the globe.

"So yes, there are two camps in the world today, but that is not necessarily his invention. That is something which Allah said in the Koran – that He made two kinds of people and they will always struggle with each other from today until the Day of Judgment. So this is an ongoing struggle. It is not going to end with Sheikh Osama bin Laden, and it didn't begin with Sheikh Osama bin Laden."

Choudary Follower: "Allah... Would Never Put Someone Evil On This Earth To Take Over the Whole Earth... There Will Be More Coming After" Bin Laden

Choudary (indicates another man): "[Unclear] is here, if you want to ask him a question."

Interviewer: "OK, I will follow up on that, then. Barack Obama would take issue with that, of course. He said today, or last night, that the war on terror is not a war on Muslims. He made that point. I wonder what your response to that assertion by Barack Obama is."

Man No. 4: "Well, he made a big mistake by saying that this is a victory on their part. As Sheikh Anjem said, jihad didn't start with Sheikh Osama. It started with the messenger Muhammad SAW, and you see that this death is actually a victory for Sheikh Osama, for the Mujahid, because he has achieved the highest level of martyrdom, the highest level of shuhada [martyrdom] And you'll see that after his death there will be many leaders writing, many lions of Islam writing in the East and the West, and you can see Islam is the fastest-growing religion at the moment in Europe.

"And, as I say, the followers of bin Laden are actually in Europe – in the UK, in Germany, in France, and other places – which is true. And you'll see that many Osamas will start writing, because you can't get rid of the truth. You can't get rid of it, which is what Obama is trying to do, and Sheikh Osama, he actually took the Muslims from darkness to light, and he showed them what Islam is, and he showed them how justice can be achieved, and he's done as much as he can, and I believe Allah took him away because he's achieved his objective, and many people will now write on his position, and that will lead Islam, the Muslims, to the greatest victory, which is coming, inshallah.

Interviewer: "How would you characterize the impact of Osama bin Laden on this generation of British Muslims?"

Man No. 4: "Well, after 9/11 everyone, Muslim and non-Muslim, took an interest in finding out about this man, and you can see that a lot of people have become Muslim after finding out about him, and a lot of Muslims have actually looked further into their religion. I think this man, Sheikh Osama bin Laden, is a role model for the Muslims in the U.K., for the youth. They see that there is injustice in this earth, there is oppression and tyranny, and it is because of this man that this oppression is being fought against, and that the banner of tyranny and the banner of injustice can be lifted, and they see him as a hero.

"And he is such a hero – he is a hero of Islam. He is like one of the greatest generals that we had, like Khalid bin Walid. This man, Sheikh Osama, [in the] 21st century, he is out greatest general, and he is going to lead us to victory."

Interviewer: "When I see him... obviously I am not Muslim, but I can certainly see his potency as a resistance figure, and his image... We live in an age where image is terribly important... He is sort of a new Che Guevara, isn't he? I know he probably means a lot more to you than just that, but do you know what I mean? He has potency as a resistance figure, as a popular resistance figure."

Man No. 4: "Of course. I mean, someone who stands up against injustice and oppression... obviously, everyone is going to come towards him, and everyone is going to follow him, and do what he did.

"At the end of the day, if you have evil, you will always have someone good to fight against that evil. Allah – He would never put someone evil on this earth to take over the whole earth. He will always put someone to stand against that evil person, and we see that He was [unclear] with Sheikh Osama bin Laden, and there will be more coming after him."

[1] http://www.anjemchoudary.com/multimedia/interviews/cnn-interview-reflection-on-life-and-death-of-sheikh-usamah-bin-laden

[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkNOMo4J0jk

[3] http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/04/26/exp.arena.royal.wedding.choudary.cnn?iref=allsearch

[4] CNN.com, April 26, 2011