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November 23, 2010 Special Dispatch No. 3395

Haji Mohammad Mohaqqiq, Leader of Hizb Wahdat-e-Islami, Says Afghan President Hamid Karzai has Turned into a ‘Soft Kind of Dictator’

November 23, 2010
Afghanistan | Special Dispatch No. 3395

On September 13, 2010, a Pakistani website posted a recent television interview with Haji Mohammad Mohaqqiq, the leader of Hizb Wahdat-e-Islami (the Islamic Unity Party). In the interview, Mohaqqiq spoke about a range of Afghan issues, including his support to President Hamid Karzai during the August 2009 elections.

The interview was telecast as part of the Jirga program, hosted by prominent Pakistani television anchor Saleem Safi on Pakistan’s main television channel Geo News. In the interview, which was telecast with Urdu voice over, Mohaqqiq criticized the Karzai government for having a cabinet with only Pashtuns serving in the important minister positions.

Mohaqqiq’s Hizb Wahdat-e-Islami, a Shi’ite party, mainly represents the Hazara tribe of Afghanistan. The Hazara leader stressed that the main reason U.S. troops are in Afghanistan is because the Taliban and other militants pose a threat to the world. He urged Afghanistan and Pakistan to unite to confront the threat of extremism in both countries.

Following are some excerpts from the interview:[1]

"Let Me Say It in Categorical Terms that the Main Reason Behind the Presence of Americans in Afghanistan is the Taliban, and Not Us"

Anchor Saleem Safi: "Mohaqqiq Sahib, the first question with you: The common perception is that the people of the north are on one side and Pakhtuns [i.e. Pashtuns based in southern Afghanistan] are on the other. Why didn’t you support the Tajik Abdullah Abdullah… in the elections and why did you support a Pakhtun Hamid Karzai?"

Mohaqqiq: "Afghanistan is the home land of all Afghanis – Tajik, Uzbek, Pakhtun, Hazara and other smaller tribes – all Afghanis are brethren. The Hazara community is part of Afghanistan and no one can ignore them; but so far as the Hazara community and its leadership is concerned, it is not limited to myself only…"

"We don’t want Afghanistan to be divided on a linguistic, communal and directional [north, south, east and west] basis. You must also have noticed that sometimes there is a fight between the north and the south and in [those formations of conflict] you must have seen that our community never remained confined. This formation came into being against the attitude of the Taliban in the last decade."

Anchor: "Mohaqqiq Sahib, it is being said and some American intellectuals have expressed this idea that if the Americans had to leave Afghanistan, it has the option to divide Afghanistan. Do you think there is any possibility of Afghanistan being divided between north and south?"

Mohaqqiq: "The American intellectual you are talking about has tried to resolve this issue hypothetically; but I have not heard on a practical level that anyone wants to take this issue on this line insofar as the analysis of Afghanistan is concerned. But let me say it in categorical terms that the main reason behind the presence of Americans in Afghanistan is the Taliban and not us.

“We have seen practically and you must also have heard about their terrorist activities for years… [The Taliban] have killed thousands of people from Faryab to Bamiyan and from Bamiyan to Mazar-e-Sharif. The terrorist atmosphere which they created was not restricted to Afghanistan only but they went beyond Afghanistan as well; and they started carrying attacks in the Western world also; and because of that the international community and the American troops are today present in Afghanistan.

"Basically, there is a need for great change in the practice[s] of the Taliban. Else, there might come more dangerous programs [threats] in practice."

"As You Know about the History of the Taliban, They have Never Kept Their Sword in Sheath Against Hazaras and Massacred Them on Large Scale"

Anchor: "The common perception here is that the northern people – Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara – don’t consider Pakistan closer to them, and that they have complaints against Pakistan or they are against Pakistan. What is the reason that this perception has gained currency in the north that Pakistan is against them?"

Mohaqqiq: "I support your view; and this is a fact that after Afghanistan, the [second] largest number of Hazaras live in Pakistan and they had a role in the history of Pakistan. The name of [former Pakistan Army chief] General Mohammad Musa Khan will remain illuminating the history of Pakistan always, who was the governor in Pakistan at some point in time; apart from that, he also played an exemplary role in Pakistan’s government and military institutions and in other [Pakistani] civil institutions.

"So far as your question is concerned there was a common perception that Pakistan was supporting the Taliban and as you know about the history of the Taliban, they have never kept their sword in sheath against Hazaras and massacred them on large scale and it was but natural that such a perception would emerge; but we must look towards future instead of the past. The threat that Afghanistan was facing from Pakistan is also… the same threat [that Pakistan is now facing], and the threat is the issue of terrorism.

"I have never been of this view to maintain a relation on cold blood with any neighboring country, especially with Pakistan, which had [played] its extremely important role during the Afghan jihad; it supported our jihad and gave shelter to the thousands of Afghanis in their country during the jihad. So, there arises no question like that."

"Terrorists of… [Afghanistan and Pakistan] are United and Want to Worsen the Situation, to Make the Two Countries Deserts"

Anchor: "Even now it is being alleged from some corner that Pakistan is supporting Taliban covertly. What would you say about it and how do you see the overall role of Pakistan regarding Afghanistan?"

Mohaqqiq: "As you are noticing, Afghanistan and Pakistan are passing through a similar situation. There also you find terrorist attacks, suicide attacks and roadside bombings and other terrorist activities continuing; and the same is here as well. There you find Afghani Taliban; here you find Pakistani Taliban.

"It would be better if I avoid using the word Taliban because it is a good word and is used for the seekers of education. It would be appropriate if I use the word ‘terrorist’ for them and the terrorists of both the countries are united and want to worsen the situation, to make the two countries deserts.

"It would be better if the two countries sat together, looked for a comprehensive solution to this issue on how to fight against the bigger challenge that is called terrorism instead of Pakistan continuing to blame Afghanistan for half the day and the rest of the day Afghanistan blaming Pakistan while terrorists take advantage of this [conflict] from within."

On Peace Talks with The Taliban: "You are Talking about Peace with Good Intentions, but the Taliban Think that You Have Become Weak"

Anchor: "Mohaqqiq Sahib, you were saying that the Taliban are not Taliban [i.e. literally students] but terrorists; but now [President] Hamid Karzai is trying to seek a solution to the Afghan issue by holding talks with the same Taliban. Is this negotiation possible with the Taliban; and would you support that process?"

Mohaqqiq: "In my view there is no Afghan, including myself, who does not want peace. But the question is that if you are moving towards peace and a process towards reconciliation, then what is the mechanism for that? In my view, if you are holding the flag of peace [on your own] and you don’t have any practicable mechanism, you want peace and you don’t have any strategy, then, in my view, it would not bring us to any solution and it is a very hard task.

"The second point is that the process of peace that Hamid Karzai or the present Afghan government has started [is good] but whether those with whom they have started negotiations want peace? You are giving the slogan of peace unilaterally but they are committing terrorist activities on the other side.

"And the next point is on what basis you are talking about peace? You are talking about peace with good intentions, but the Taliban think that you have become weak and that’s why you are talking about peace. [They think that] the coalition and foreign forces have become weak and that’s why you want to talk peace. So, instead of benefitting the peace process, it is hurting its cause. Without any strategy and without any mechanism, you are calling for peace unilaterally and they are taking advantage of that…"

"To advance the peace process you have to be very transparent and should take all the Afghan people into confidence. And for the past… nine years, we have been practicing some values like human rights, rights of different communities, religion, freedom of speech and some other similar good values. [It is important to know] what the attitude of the Taliban is towards these values, do they accept them or not.

"Secondly, if the Taliban think that they would enter Afghanistan with weapons again and would attack any particular part of Afghanistan, that is now impossible and is not acceptable in any part of Afghanistan."

"In My View, the Resolution of the Afghanistan Issue is Hidden in Both the Ways – the Military [Campaign] and the Peace Process"

Anchor: "Can NATO terminate the Taliban or Al-Qaeda by the use of force?"

Mohaqqiq: "I don’t think the military solution is the only solution for the Afghan issue. But [at the same time] I don’t support the idea that you keep on requesting Taliban. In my view, the resolution of Afghanistan issue is hidden in both the ways – the military [campaign] and the peace process.

"Pakistan has also tried it for a long time; and now your government has also come to this conclusion that no more talks [should be conducted] with the Taliban. And now you have also started taking resort to the use of power."

"In My View, the War That is Going on in Afghanistan is not a Proxy War; But the Basic Issue in Afghanistan is Extremism"

Anchor: "Is it not true that Americans used the Afghan lands against Iran [for example in] the way they placed Abdul Malik Reigi, the leader of Jundallah? And, is it not true that India is using Afghan territory against Pakistan?"

Mohaqqiq: "Afghanistan never wanted to be used against any country and the Afghan people would never allow any country to use Afghanistan as a launch pad against any country or allow any proxy war in their country. In my view, the war that is going on in Afghanistan is not a proxy war; but the basic issue in Afghanistan is extremism. And these extremists are responsible for the destruction of Afghanistan and are also responsible for the destruction of Pakistan. These extremists interpret Islam according to their wills and due to their special interpretation of religion, today they are responsible for all of these incidents.

"I don’t think that Reigi was born in America or Afghanistan. He was born and brought up in Iran. But the trouble is that he was an extremist. There are more examples and I don’t want to mention their names. Our basic problem is extremism and the wrong interpretation of religion and due to that Afghanistan and this region have come to this state."

"In 2001, When the Bonn Agreement was Made, There Were Five Hazara Ministers in the Cabinet; But Today There is not a Single Minister [from that Community]"

Anchor: "There are different opinions about the present Hamid Karzai government. In Pakistan, most of analysts are of the opinion that he does not hold the real power but that the Tajiks of the north have the real power. On the other hand, people like [former Afghan intelligence chief] Amrullah Saleh allege that Hamid Karzai is promoting only Pakhtuns and wants to suppress others. Practically, how do you see the composition of Hamid Karzai’s government?"

Mohaqqiq: "Let me give you some examples and you will decide yourself whether the Afghan government is a coalition and representative government?

"In 2001, when the Bonn agreement was made, there were five Hazara ministers in the cabinet; but today there is not a single minister [from that community]. Today, all of the important ministers come from one tribe and that is Pakhtun.

"Now you yourself can guess whether this government is a representative government…"

Anchor: "It’s evident from your talks that everything is in the hands of Pakhtuns; but the impression outside, in Pakistan, is that the real power is in the hands of the northern Tajiks."

Mohaqqiq: "I think that such types of analyses and assessments have spoiled Mr. Karzai and have changed Mr. Karzai into a soft kind of dictator. In my view, Mr. Karzai has to change his ruling attitude, for the path he is treading on is not very suitable for Afghan national unity. Afghanistan is the country of all [tribes] and everyone should get a share in the Afghan government…"

Endnote:

[1] www.expresspakistan.com (Pakistan), September 13, 2010; text has been lightly edited for clarity.

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