Following are excerpts
from interviews with Iraqi MP Ayad Jamal Al-Din, which aired on Al-Arabiya
TV and on Al-Fayhaa TV on February 14 and 23, 2010.
Al-Arabiya TV:
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
I have a clear position on Iran. It is not a hostile position – I
wouldn't want to put on Saddam Hussein's helmet. But the relations between
Iran and Iraq at present are extremely complex. There is a duality in
the Iranian discourse. The message of the Foreign Ministry is one thing,
and that of the intelligence and the Revolutionary Guards is another.
[...]
If it were up to me,
I would enable Mojahedin-e Khalq to become an active opposition to the
Iranian regime – unless Iran stops training militias and intervening
in Iraq in a negative way. I made my position clear in the Iraqi parliament's
foreign relations committee, and this can be found in the official protocols.
I called to give a free hand to opposition groups to any country that
interferes negatively in Iraqi affairs...
Interviewer: Even
if it is accused of criminal acts, like in the case of MEK?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Even so. I don't want to grant them Iraqi citizenship. I want to fend
off Iranian interference in Iraqi affairs. No more, no less. If words
do not deter them – just like they train militias, we can mobilize
the Mojahedin-e Khalq against Iran.
[...]
Syria is still a strategic
ally of Iran. It hasn't disbanded its alliance with it. Syria serves
as a guise for the Iranian presence in Lebanon, and feels uncomfortable
with the US presence in Iraq. Therefore, it is not surprising that Syria
joined Iran in destabilizing Iraq, using the Ba'thists, Al-Qaeda, or
other militias, in order to make the US leave Iraq in humiliation, so
that the Iranian and Syrian regimes would accomplish their goal.
[...]
Any neighboring country
– Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, or Turkey – that destabilizes
Iraq's security – if I have the power, I will use the methods to destabilize
their domestic security. If they treat us with respect, we will respond
in kind, and if they destabilize our security, we will respond in kind
as well.
[...]
There is a spiritual,
ideological, and existential harmony between several [Iraqi] political
parties and Iran. There are people who emulate Ali Khamenei. They view
him as a religious source of authority and a means to please God. These
people are not mobilized by Iran. They are Iran. They support the Iranian
regime more staunchly than Mohammad Khatami or Mir-Hossein Mousavi.
They oppose the Iranian reformists, who are against Ali Khamenei. These
people are not activated by remote control. They are Iran.
[...]
The religious Shiite
political parties are yet to determine their stand regarding the notion
of a state. They still haven't decided if they believe in a state or
not. Do they accept the borders? They keep saying: "God has destroyed
the borders they have built." Do they or don't they view Ali Khamenei
as the "Guardian of the Muslims" – whether in Indonesia,
Nigeria, or Iraq? I challenge any Islamic Shiite politician in Iraq
to say that Ali Khamenei is not the Guardian of the Muslims.
[...]
90% of the great Shiite
jurisprudents are for the establishment of a secular state.
Interviewer: 90%
of the Shiite jurisprudents in Iran and in Iraq...
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
...support the establishment of a secular regime.
Interviewer: Separation
of [religion and state]?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Complete separation. The only ones who support the instating of Islamic
law are Khomeini [sic] and his followers. How come Khomeini's
voice is loud, while the 90% are not heard? Those 90% don't have a state,
a militia, a TV channel, a political party, or even a political agenda.
[...]
The Iraqi people emulate
Al-Sistani. Al-Sistani opposes the Rule of the Jurisprudent, He doesn’t
believe in it. He does not accept that the jurisprudent has any [political]
authority over people. Why doesn't he speak up? Why does he use such
specific terminology that only the experts understand? Because he is
afraid of Iran. Iran gave all the Shiite imams within Iran and abroad
the choice...
Interviewer: Is
Al-Sistani threatened by Iran?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Iran gave all the Shiite imams within Iran and abroad the following
choice: Either praise the Rule of the Jurisprudent, or bite your tongue
and shut up. If anyone dares to criticize the Rule of the Jurisprudent,
they destroy him completely, and make an example of him, so that nobody
else will dare to criticize the Rule of the Jurisprudent.
Interviewer:
Do you think that they would be prepared to harm Iraqi Ayatollah Al-Sistani,
if he said that he didn't support the Rule of the Jurisprudent?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
They would be prepared to harm the Prophet Muhammad himself.
[...]
Interviewer: Are
you supported by the US?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
I have close, broad, and comprehensive relations with many...
Interviewer:
You are not answering my question. Are you supported by the US or not?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Define what you mean by "support."
Interviewer:
Financial support.
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Money? No.
Interviewer:
They do not support you?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Absolutely not.
[...]
Interviewer: It's
been said that a certain TV channel received three million dollars for
airing your elections campaign ads. Where did you get this fortune?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
A group of Iraqi businessmen, who believe in my ideas, policies, and
positions, wanted to donate money. I said: I don't want any donations,
but there is the elections campaign, and you can help us to cover its
costs.
Interviewer: Everybody
says this. Whenever you ask them where they got the money, they say
they have a friend who is a businessman, who gave them the money because
he supports their ideology. Will this convince the Iraqi citizens?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
But I have an ideology and a political vision. Listen to me carefully
– I didn't take money from any country. History will prove that I
am speaking the truth. All the documents in the US and other countries
are made public after 30-50 years...
Interviewer:
How will these documents benefit us after 50 years? We want to know
now.
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
I will be a disgrace to my children if I am lying. I didn't take money
from any country, intelligence agency, or political body. Not a penny.
Interviewer:
Is it true that your campaign manager was the campaign manager of US
President Barack Obama?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
He is one of them.
Interviewer: One
of them?!
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Yes.
Interviewer:
Doesn't this constitute American support?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
I also have the campaign manager of Australian PM John Howard, the campaign
manager of Tony Blair for three years, the team that worked with Recep
Tayyip Erdoğan, and many professional teams that have helped us with
many technical issues, even with writing the economic part of our plan
for the development of Iraq. I consider Iraq to be sick and in need
of professional doctors.
[...]
Iraq in its entirety
is connected to the American agenda. It is not just this individual
or that political party. The Americans and their tanks came to Iraq,
kicked out the former regime, and established the political process.
Iraq in its entirety is subject to American influence. Even if I die
tomorrow, things will not change.
Interviewer:
So why criticize Iranian influence and not American influence?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
The US is a civilized, developed country that does not deal with religion.
Does the US care about the religion of the Shiites or the Sunnis, and
so on? It cares only about its economic interests. The first they ask
you here is: Who do you emulate – Al-Sistani or Khamenei? Do you wear
the veil, or not? They interfere in the most specific personal details.
[...]
The US despises two kinds
of people: the kind that is stupidly anti-American, like Kim Il-Sung,
the President of North Korea, and our own former president [Saddam Hussein]...
Interviewer:
You mean Kim Jong-Il?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
The leader of North Korea. The other kind is those who throw themselves
into their arms in submission and flattery. The Americans respect the
strong who are also pragmatic. The Americans are all businessmen. They
deal with money. Their god is the dollar. The Americans view as stupid
those who are totally hostile to them, as well as those who throw themselves
into their arms. The US spends $37 billion on toilet paper annually.
It's a superpower, with tremendous influence. We need to have an agreement
with them. Our universities...
Interviewer:
Is it true that the US exerted pressure, as some people say, regarding
the ban on [former Ba'thists from running in the elections]?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
This is nonsense. What does it mean to say that "the US exerted
pressure"? Who brought them to power if not the US? Did any of
them even dream of returning to Iraq, and becoming an MP, a minister,
or a prime minister, if nor for the US? What does it mean "the
US exerted pressure"? Didn't the US come with its tanks, remove
Saddam, put you in power, draft a constitution for you, and create elections
for you? How can they say that they exert pressure?
[...]
Interviewer: If
your Ahrar Party wins some seats, but eventually, you have to support
someone to become prime minister – would you give your vote to Dr.
Ayad Allawi?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Absolutely not.
Interviewer: Why
not?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
This will never happen.
Interviewer:
Who would you support? Al-Maliki, for example?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Ayad Allawi has only one choice. He must apologize for sending a delegation
to Iran, and then, we will see. Since he sent a delegation to Iran,
he cannot expect my support.
Interviewer:
And if he issues a clarification?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
No, he must apologize for sending the delegation to Iran, and then,
we will see.
Interviewer:
Who would you support? Al-Bolani? Al-Maliki?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
I'd rather deal with an obvious collaborator with the Iranian Revolutionary
Guard Corps than support a cover collaborator with the Iranian Revolutionary
Guard Corps.
Al-Fayhaa TV:
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
All those [Iraqi politicians] have been influenced by my ideas, but
envy, conceit, cowardice, and shamelessness prevent them from acknowledging
this. All of them have come to believe in secularism. Three of Iraq's
most senior leaders have said to me: "We believe in all your ideas."
Interviewer: What,
you invented secularism?! Secularism is an existing ideology, and people
who had been living in the West were influenced by it.
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Yes, I invented it. Do you know why? Go ahead, ask me why.
Interviewer: Why?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
They support secularism because of the failure of religion. They said:
Religion is a failure, it is backward, thousands of years old. Let's
throw it into the garbage, and bring in something new. I'm not saying
this. I'm not saying that religion is backward. I consider religion
to be a gem.
[...]
Why do we [Shiites] say
that we await the appearance of the Mahdi? So he can become a minister,
or so he can found a government of justice? We Shiites are the nation
of waiting. We ask jurisprudents what we are to do in the absence of
the Mahdi. What are we to do if the Mahdi does not come in a million
years? Should we sit twiddling our thumbs, or should we allow a villain
to rule us?
The jurisprudents say:
No, you, the religious people, should rule, but according to rational
civil laws. In modern political terms, we call this "secularism."
This is my conclusion – not of Jean-Jacques Rousseau or Voltaire.
This is my invention. This is "made in Ayad Jamal Al-Din."
I invented it. Nobody else did. Whoever refuses to admit this is blind,
ignorant, or conceited. I take pride in this.
[...]
Generation after generation
of Shiite jurisprudents have been in consensus – and I am responsible
for what I say – that instating a religious regime in the absence
of the Mahdi is as forbidden as drinking alcohol. The only exceptions
are the Imam Khomeini and his followers, who support the Rule of the
Jurisprudent.
[...]
Do you know what one
of the government leaders said? Listen to this. Three days ago, he said
that one of the elections candidates was identified by the intelligence
as having killed three people, and having destroyed two homes. Now he
is running for elections. This "hero" from the government
said: We struck off his name so he cannot run.
Fine, but why do you
let this son-of-a-bitch walk away? He killed three people and burned
down two homes, and you let him walk freely in the streets? You are
remiss in protecting the security of the people. An outright dog like
that? They say that 180 killers are running for elections. All were
members of [Saddam's] intelligence. These are 180 wild wolves – why
do we let them walk the streets freely? Why not get rid of them?
[...]
A killer should be killed,
even if he wears a turban like me. No one – whether from the Saddam
regime or from this regime – who killed an Iraqi citizen should walk
free. What does it mean to prevent him from running in the elections?
A killer should be killed – not merely prevented from running.
[...]
If I become prime minister,
I will kill every Ba'thist killer, even if he clings to the Ka'ba. Not
a single drop of Iraqi blood will go unpunished – whether it was shed
by the previous regime or by the current militias. I will not let a
single killer of Iraqis take another breath, even if they promise me
heaven and earth.
Interviewer: Even
if it means digging mass graves, like Saddam Hussein did?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
Not mass graves. Through the court of law.
[...]
Interviewer: How
many Saddamists are there, in your estimate?
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
The Saddamists do not number more than 30,000.
Interviewer: And
you want to kill all of them?!
Ayad Jamal Al-Din:
In cold blood. Not all the Saddamists – just the killers.
