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In a recent TV debate, Egyptian scholars debated the curricula of Al-Azhar. Ahmad Abduh Maher, a researcher of Islamic studies, complained that moderation was not evident in its books of jurisprudence, and journalist Iman Al-Waraqi said that lecturers were teaching extremist ideologies, leading the students to wage Jihad and identify with ISIS. The debate aired on the Egyptian Al-Tahrir TV on January 4, 2015.
Ahmad Abduh Maher: We all say that Al-Azhar belongs to the moderate stream of Islam. That’s all well and good, but if Al-Azhar is moderate, I would like to be able to see this moderation in its books. I don’t want this to remain an Egyptian-style rumor, with no corroboration in the texts and curricula.
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Why do we prefer to quote the early scholars and study their jurisprudence, even though they know nothing about our (modern) culture? Moreover, it is not logical that for every hadith, I should have to bring in a jurisprudent to explain it. Our religion should be accessible and easy to understand, not difficult. For example, if I open Jurisprudence According to the Four Schools of Thought, I find things that are laughable. Absolutely laughable. ‘If a man marries a woman…’—I just opened it at random…
I want all the people to hear what this book has to say. This is a book in which we take pride, and which has been passed down through the generations for hundreds of years.
Woman: But this is just exegesis.
Ahmad Abduh Maher: These are ideas. These are the same ideas about which President Al-Sisi was talking.
Abd Al-Ghafar Al-Hilali: This leads to…
Ahmad Abduh Maher: It says: ‘If a man marries a woman, and then disappears for two years, and then receives news that he died…”—I’m not making anything up—‘she undergoes the necessary waiting period and then remarries…’
Abd Al-Ghafar Al-Hilali: You’re not pronouncing the word right.
Ahmad Abduh Maher: Fine. My mother tongue is French. ‘Then she remarries and bears children to her second husband. Then her first husband reappears…’—the one who was said to be dead—‘In such a case, the children will be taken from the second husband and given to the first, and the wife will divorce the second husband and return to the first.’ Only lunatics would say such things.
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Iman Al-Waraqi: When it comes to the teaching staff, I think that there is no supervision of lecturers at Al-Azhar University. Lecturers have introduced Wahhabi and Muslim Brotherhood ideas to the students, through the books they teach. Would you believe that Al-Azhar, which symbolizes moderation and claims to represent moderate Islam, teaches the writings of Muhammad Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab?
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Look at what the students are saying about the curricula and the administration. They are saying: ‘We are ISIS. You have turned us into ISIS.’ They say that the Al-Azhar curricula lead them to accuse people of heresy, and to wage jihad, and all kinds of things related to ISIS.
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Just imagine—they are leading students in this direction. From junior high, he is taught (the hadith): ‘I was commanded to fight people.’ When he is in high school, he is taught that he should say to the dhimmi: ‘If you don’t pay me the jizha poll tax, I will beat you and kill you,’ and so on. Throughout his years of education, he is given information that shapes his personality.
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Ahmad Abduh Maher: What does it say here? ‘In war, in order to ward off the enemy…’—this is taught to kids 15 years old—‘you may gouge out the eyes (of the enemy), or chop off his arms and legs.’ This is the Education Ministry Book.
Abd Al-Ghafar Al-Hilali: Don’t say those things…
Ahmad Abduh Maher: Don’t interrupt me, Dr. Al-Hilali…
Abd Al-Ghafar Al-Hilali: But this is out of context.
Ahmad Abduh Maher: Don’t interrupt me!
Dr. Muhammad Salam Al-'Asi: But these books have been removed from the curricula!
Ahmad Abduh Maher: No, they haven’t.
Dr. Muhammad Salam Al-'Asi: Yes, they have.
Ahmad Abduh Maher: Why did you wait for a military college graduate (Al-Sisi) to come and tell you that these things are wrong?
Dr. Muhammad Salam Al-'Asi: We didn’t wait. For two years…
Ahmad Abduh Maher: You waited for a thousand years for a military college graduate to come and tell you that this is wrong.
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